It's a wet evening and I'm sat in one of Liverpool's more homely city centre pubs. With me are two members of the 'pool's greatest, yet largely unrecognised indie outfits of the last few years, Hellfire Sermons.
Lead singer Colin is describing, in rather (!) decorative terms, the beauty of his creation, while drummer Alan and manager Ian look in quiet approval.
To paraphrase, here's the story so far: it was in 1987 that Andy (bass) replied to Colin's ad in a local music shop - soon Neal (guitar) and Alan were on board and the Hellfire Sermons were born.
The band were soon signed to small southern label Esurient, through whom they've released three well-received singles, while live performances have met with all round critical approval.
Musically, the Sermons have drawn various comparisons; their fuzzing guitars combine with an ability to write poignant, addictive tunes, leading to descriptions ranging from 'folk-beat' to 'carefree pop'.
So now that we're up to date, has being on such a small label as Esurient held you back, in terms of progress/recognition/success?
Colin: "Well, there's been two years between our two singles, which isn't a healthy output. We could have had an album out, time to develop in the studio which hasn't happened, and the chance to play live more often."
However, the band recognise the immense support the label has given them in gaining some initial, if only regional backing and Colin describes the reason why they were drawn to Esurient.
"There has always been a nice '77 punk buzz about the label... stuff has sold through word of mouth as opposed to being hyped."
Sadly, Esurient have decided that they've taken the label as far as possible (victims perhaps of their own musical ideals) and it's time for the Sermons to take themselves elsewhere.
With "110% control" at Esurient over recording, what conditions would they set before signing to another label?
Alan: "To an extent you have to pander to the hand that feeds, but I wouldn't want to sign to a major if we weren't going to be treated decently. We're good enough to demand what we want."
And what can potential 'buyers' expect of a band who've been described as having more in common with "Kylie than Wylie" in one of their own press releases! More specifically, Hellfire Sermons' comparisons have ranged from Joy Division to the early sound of Creation and Scots' band The Fire Engines are a constant reference point.
Does this annoy or amuse?
Colin: "Some of the comparisons do make us laugh, yeah. We've listened to sub-'87 pop, the Fire Engines and others, but some references are so far wide of the mark and that's just people trying to categorise us."
Like most bands worth their salt, they're a little averse to being pigeon-holed, and I hesitate in even referring to Hellfire Sermons as a 'Liverpool band'.
"Well, there are 'Liverpool bands' and there are bands from Liverpool," rations a pensive Alan.
"You have to distinguish between the basic Beatles' impersonators and the bands who don't publicise where they're from and avoid getting lumped in with any 'scene'.
"Sadly, many bands are using the Liverpool name to further themselves - record companies often set them up and push them in that direction."
Colin nods in agreement.
"I think people should stop exhuming the Beatles... they should be laid to rest."